Excellent summary. As you note, our parliamentary system is not well understood - sometimes by those who arguably should know better. Initial media reports on the election results claimed (erroneously) that David Eby would first have to persuade the Lieutenant-Governor that the NDP could form a government before appointing a Cabinet. The LG, of course, has no discretion at this point; an incumbent Premier remains Premier and is entitled to test whether or not his or her government has the confidence of a majority of the newly-elected Legislature.
David: I am glad that,having lived in quarrelsome, cranky B.C., you have expressed this quandary so well. Yeah we are hot for democracy: no, we are not so keen on its exercise ...if we may end with this maximally oxymoronic statement/ truism. (I missed 'if our ox was gored' by a hair/hare"? This sort of thing is typical of the bad comment cliche-ridden, which you skillfully avoid. Suffice it to day we are in B.C., which considers itself superior and admirable in all things: dissent is rather frowned on in spite of the vaunted West Coast hippiedom and protest movements, so-called, of the past. Sometimes it is a fair distance from Dave Barrett days of the first socialist government to follow Tommy Douglas's and David Lewis's dreams and occasional successes of the mid century. I remember being on a train with a portable radio listening to the revolution occurring in B.C., as we moved here from staid Ontario. But we had begun, as so many of refugee prairie people, in Saskatchewan. Whereon our pilgrimage now? .... and we are very old!
Keep it up, David. There are so few of you analyzing our passage -- on print, in person, with intelligence.
Thx David M. Sad state that so few know how our governments operate.
I was lucky to be born and raised in Federal riding of Winnipeg North Centre where Stanley Knowles known as Mr. Parliament was my MP. Also participated in youth Parliament at Manitoba Legislature over Xmas holidays.
But here in Alberta ignorance is bliss and your comments on supply agreement as well as coalition was welcome. Still remember when Harper prorogued Parliament when the NDP and Liberals agreed to a coalition. Albertans were up on arms and even PM Harper said it was illegal I believe.
In addition to appointing a Speaker, in BC they will need to also appoint a Chair of the Committee of the Whole so if they had 47 members only, that would take them down further. The Speaker votes only in the case of a tie.
That is why David Moscrop aptly notes that in 2017 they had to convince an opposition MLA as Speaker who as I was recall went rogue as his party didn't want to help out the government.
Also, if the numbers stay as they are today and there are two Green Party MLAs the government needs their votes so they'll be trying to find an MLA from the Conservative Party to take the role on. These days Conservatives in Canada are very different and finding an MLA from their ranks might be a problem as its likely to be forbidden by John Rustad. Also, I'm not sure they have any experience on their side as knowing something about how the system works is crucial in a minority government.
Assuming the numbers stay the same, the speaker won't be a problem. The NDP plus Raj Chouhan back in the chair and then they have equal seats to the Conservatives but could win a vote with the Greens support. This works even if they also put up a deputy speaker in committee who stays impartial, so Spencer Chandra Herbert can have that job back too.
Things are dicier for the Conservatives if they somehow convinced the Greens to support them form government. Then their speaker is breaking tie votes and I assume we'd see a softening of the unseen procedural traditions. But far more likely the Greens have no interest in working with a climate denier.
I am of the belief that every Canadian University student, regardless of their field of study be required to take a course in Canadian History. Contained in that course should be a section on the Constitution, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as well as some of the more significant Supreme Court decisions with respect to both. I recently saw a post from a person who said she is voting for Poilievre because he would make a good Prime Minister. Really? He has been in the House of Commons for 20 years, a Cabinet Minister and now the leader of his party. One is hard pressed to come up with a single proposal that he has promoted that was for the good of the nation. He criticizes, but offers nothing by way of solutions. He refused to get security clearance to read the report on Foreign interference in our elections. Why? Could it be that he and or his Caucus members have been complicit in that interference? Canada deserves far better leadership than he is offering. He or members of his caucus have embraced representatives of such organizations as the Proud Boys, embraced and supported "Freedom Convoy" leaders and dined with International Fascists. And yet a sizable portion of the electorate will and are voting for them. In doing so they are completely oblivious to the fact that the party as it stands today bears no resemblance to the party of such former leaders as John Diefenbaker, Robert Stanfield or Joe Clark. Rather it is the old Social Credit Party, controlled by religious fundamentalists, more concerned with the next world than this one. Lets home the that the NDP hangs on in BC. Last night New Brunswick voters and turfed out the Conservatives as well as their leader Blaine Higgs who lost his seat. A well deserved defeat. On Monday next, Saskatchewan goes to the polls and one can only hope that Scott Moe and his caucus are delivered the same fate as their counterparts in New Brunswick.
Most of these topics are already covered in grade school, at least in BC. This is taught over multiple years of social studies. Waiting until university would be a mistake. In my opinion, what should happen is that there is a mandatory civics class in grade 12 that must be passed in order to graduate. No matter what someone wants to do with their life after graduation, they should at least understand how our democracy is supposed to work.
This would help limit the voter manipulation that happens by parties now that prey upon the ignorance of the electorate in general. There really should be no excuse for people as shown in the news over the past several days that thought they were voting to put Trudeau out of power. I want to pin this on those people being stupid/ignorant, but it speaks to a failing of our education system that they can be that ignorant in the first place.
I didn't suggest that these matters not be taught in elementary or high school. But to suggest that they are addressed to the same degree as they are in university would be absurd.
In the last provincial election in Ontario 57 per cent of eligible voters did not vote. That cannot be good for democracy.
Interesting on the speakership. I know that in the UK, the speaker is supposed to be non-partisan, but, is their "count" deducted from party caucus numbers? Is the BC rule the same for the federal Commons in Canada? That said, I am reminded that a British Speaker can come from the opposition, and has in the relatively recent past.
The BC Speaker and the House of Commons Speaker can only vote in the case of a tie but that is not exactly what a government wants to happen as the legislatures only work when all members and parties see the Speaker as impartial and fair.
The most famous vote of a Speaker I can recall was the 2005 House of Commons vote to keep the Paul Martin government in office. Most of us cheered the then independent Chuck Cadman's vote to tie it at 152-152 but forgot the Speaker voted on the side of the government to avoid an early election.
It was a vote to add $4.6 billion in social program spending that also delayed corporate tax cuts. Speaker Peter Milliken a Liberal MP broke the tie and voted for the budget.
Doing my net-searching from south of the border, I noted that in Germany, the Bundestag, in addition to a president as equivalent of the speaker, also has multiple vice presidents.
Does BC require the speaker to be an MLA? Could select one of those defunct provincial Liberals if not!
The Speaker is chosen from among the MLAs and my understanding the Speaker must be an MLA. The deputy is usually an Opposition MLA.
The BC Liberals expelled Daryl Plecas for taking the Speakers Chair. I can't see Rustad and his cronies wanting to fill that spot. However, the risks to all parties is another election if the Legislature fails to fill the role. The Lieutenant-Governor will not give a Speech from the Throne until the Speaker sits.
Someone will surely want that role and the extra money even if it means they got expelled from their caucus. I can't see how the NDP can fill it with one of their own with the numbers it seems they might have.
Got it. So it appears in the other parliamentary systems with which I am familiar. UK deputy speakers and German vice presidents most come from in the Commons or Bundestag.
They are rarely necessary, as there is not frequently elections where one party does not have a majority. Also, in many cases, we only end up with 2 parties being in the legislature (which contributes to the first point). Unless jurisdictions move to some form of proportional representation, coalitions are likely to remain uncommon.
Excellent summary. As you note, our parliamentary system is not well understood - sometimes by those who arguably should know better. Initial media reports on the election results claimed (erroneously) that David Eby would first have to persuade the Lieutenant-Governor that the NDP could form a government before appointing a Cabinet. The LG, of course, has no discretion at this point; an incumbent Premier remains Premier and is entitled to test whether or not his or her government has the confidence of a majority of the newly-elected Legislature.
Thank you for this.
David: I am glad that,having lived in quarrelsome, cranky B.C., you have expressed this quandary so well. Yeah we are hot for democracy: no, we are not so keen on its exercise ...if we may end with this maximally oxymoronic statement/ truism. (I missed 'if our ox was gored' by a hair/hare"? This sort of thing is typical of the bad comment cliche-ridden, which you skillfully avoid. Suffice it to day we are in B.C., which considers itself superior and admirable in all things: dissent is rather frowned on in spite of the vaunted West Coast hippiedom and protest movements, so-called, of the past. Sometimes it is a fair distance from Dave Barrett days of the first socialist government to follow Tommy Douglas's and David Lewis's dreams and occasional successes of the mid century. I remember being on a train with a portable radio listening to the revolution occurring in B.C., as we moved here from staid Ontario. But we had begun, as so many of refugee prairie people, in Saskatchewan. Whereon our pilgrimage now? .... and we are very old!
Keep it up, David. There are so few of you analyzing our passage -- on print, in person, with intelligence.
I do miss Dave.
Thx David M. Sad state that so few know how our governments operate.
I was lucky to be born and raised in Federal riding of Winnipeg North Centre where Stanley Knowles known as Mr. Parliament was my MP. Also participated in youth Parliament at Manitoba Legislature over Xmas holidays.
But here in Alberta ignorance is bliss and your comments on supply agreement as well as coalition was welcome. Still remember when Harper prorogued Parliament when the NDP and Liberals agreed to a coalition. Albertans were up on arms and even PM Harper said it was illegal I believe.
I believe Harper called it a coup, and used his unopposed-due-to-prorogation bully pulpit to convince Canadians it was a coup. It wasn't a coup.
In addition to appointing a Speaker, in BC they will need to also appoint a Chair of the Committee of the Whole so if they had 47 members only, that would take them down further. The Speaker votes only in the case of a tie.
That is why David Moscrop aptly notes that in 2017 they had to convince an opposition MLA as Speaker who as I was recall went rogue as his party didn't want to help out the government.
Also, if the numbers stay as they are today and there are two Green Party MLAs the government needs their votes so they'll be trying to find an MLA from the Conservative Party to take the role on. These days Conservatives in Canada are very different and finding an MLA from their ranks might be a problem as its likely to be forbidden by John Rustad. Also, I'm not sure they have any experience on their side as knowing something about how the system works is crucial in a minority government.
Assuming the numbers stay the same, the speaker won't be a problem. The NDP plus Raj Chouhan back in the chair and then they have equal seats to the Conservatives but could win a vote with the Greens support. This works even if they also put up a deputy speaker in committee who stays impartial, so Spencer Chandra Herbert can have that job back too.
Things are dicier for the Conservatives if they somehow convinced the Greens to support them form government. Then their speaker is breaking tie votes and I assume we'd see a softening of the unseen procedural traditions. But far more likely the Greens have no interest in working with a climate denier.
I am of the belief that every Canadian University student, regardless of their field of study be required to take a course in Canadian History. Contained in that course should be a section on the Constitution, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as well as some of the more significant Supreme Court decisions with respect to both. I recently saw a post from a person who said she is voting for Poilievre because he would make a good Prime Minister. Really? He has been in the House of Commons for 20 years, a Cabinet Minister and now the leader of his party. One is hard pressed to come up with a single proposal that he has promoted that was for the good of the nation. He criticizes, but offers nothing by way of solutions. He refused to get security clearance to read the report on Foreign interference in our elections. Why? Could it be that he and or his Caucus members have been complicit in that interference? Canada deserves far better leadership than he is offering. He or members of his caucus have embraced representatives of such organizations as the Proud Boys, embraced and supported "Freedom Convoy" leaders and dined with International Fascists. And yet a sizable portion of the electorate will and are voting for them. In doing so they are completely oblivious to the fact that the party as it stands today bears no resemblance to the party of such former leaders as John Diefenbaker, Robert Stanfield or Joe Clark. Rather it is the old Social Credit Party, controlled by religious fundamentalists, more concerned with the next world than this one. Lets home the that the NDP hangs on in BC. Last night New Brunswick voters and turfed out the Conservatives as well as their leader Blaine Higgs who lost his seat. A well deserved defeat. On Monday next, Saskatchewan goes to the polls and one can only hope that Scott Moe and his caucus are delivered the same fate as their counterparts in New Brunswick.
Most of these topics are already covered in grade school, at least in BC. This is taught over multiple years of social studies. Waiting until university would be a mistake. In my opinion, what should happen is that there is a mandatory civics class in grade 12 that must be passed in order to graduate. No matter what someone wants to do with their life after graduation, they should at least understand how our democracy is supposed to work.
This would help limit the voter manipulation that happens by parties now that prey upon the ignorance of the electorate in general. There really should be no excuse for people as shown in the news over the past several days that thought they were voting to put Trudeau out of power. I want to pin this on those people being stupid/ignorant, but it speaks to a failing of our education system that they can be that ignorant in the first place.
I didn't suggest that these matters not be taught in elementary or high school. But to suggest that they are addressed to the same degree as they are in university would be absurd.
In the last provincial election in Ontario 57 per cent of eligible voters did not vote. That cannot be good for democracy.
Interesting on the speakership. I know that in the UK, the speaker is supposed to be non-partisan, but, is their "count" deducted from party caucus numbers? Is the BC rule the same for the federal Commons in Canada? That said, I am reminded that a British Speaker can come from the opposition, and has in the relatively recent past.
The BC Speaker and the House of Commons Speaker can only vote in the case of a tie but that is not exactly what a government wants to happen as the legislatures only work when all members and parties see the Speaker as impartial and fair.
The most famous vote of a Speaker I can recall was the 2005 House of Commons vote to keep the Paul Martin government in office. Most of us cheered the then independent Chuck Cadman's vote to tie it at 152-152 but forgot the Speaker voted on the side of the government to avoid an early election.
It was a vote to add $4.6 billion in social program spending that also delayed corporate tax cuts. Speaker Peter Milliken a Liberal MP broke the tie and voted for the budget.
Doing my net-searching from south of the border, I noted that in Germany, the Bundestag, in addition to a president as equivalent of the speaker, also has multiple vice presidents.
Does BC require the speaker to be an MLA? Could select one of those defunct provincial Liberals if not!
The Speaker is chosen from among the MLAs and my understanding the Speaker must be an MLA. The deputy is usually an Opposition MLA.
The BC Liberals expelled Daryl Plecas for taking the Speakers Chair. I can't see Rustad and his cronies wanting to fill that spot. However, the risks to all parties is another election if the Legislature fails to fill the role. The Lieutenant-Governor will not give a Speech from the Throne until the Speaker sits.
Someone will surely want that role and the extra money even if it means they got expelled from their caucus. I can't see how the NDP can fill it with one of their own with the numbers it seems they might have.
Got it. So it appears in the other parliamentary systems with which I am familiar. UK deputy speakers and German vice presidents most come from in the Commons or Bundestag.
I blame Trudeau.
LOL. Definitely Trudeau's fault for BC Legislature rules and conventions. I blame him for the recycling outfit missing my place two weeks ago!
I should add that, from south of the border, I would vote NDP were I in Canada. That's even more after Canadian Greens' post Oct. 2, 2023 "fraying."
Besides, it's not just me. Joey Bats told people to vote NDP after his most famous bat flip. https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMeo7kxpVbNjTwLUVEYZ4TwVQlEatZfLykQEoEyJMTgMd7zV4WbTwJKLvlyhpi1zg?key=Q1lhcUYzWVQ3UVoxMmhOZ2lUZHI5amJQNnB1QXZ3
This is the type of post I'm here for. Thanks for helping me learn more about how the system works. More please.
Is there a reason why coalitions are uncommon in Canada?
They are rarely necessary, as there is not frequently elections where one party does not have a majority. Also, in many cases, we only end up with 2 parties being in the legislature (which contributes to the first point). Unless jurisdictions move to some form of proportional representation, coalitions are likely to remain uncommon.
Makes sense, but there was the supply and confidence agreements Federally and in BC. They didn’t choose to make a coalition.
Thanks for this. Real, actual information on our parliamentary system is needed. Lots of dis/info abounds.