It’s today’s conservatives. They cant function without their daily share of fake outrage and culture wars. However, it isn’t really surprising. Today’s right wouldn’t be appearing at all without rage farming. It’s just hilarious that at the same time they are also fighting toes and nails against additional labeling requirements for natural products. Anyway, let’s see the next step thing they will be mad at.
U hit the nail on the head. One mustn't forget the right is set on eliminating the left and the process almost complete in the USA, and well underway in Canada. Just open your ears! Who is encourageing mistrust in our institutions? The Supreme Court, the Bank of Canada, our Federal government, Statistics Canada, our voting system ,and election process .
Always the rright.The ultra right Premiers like Smith , Moe, Ford and Higgs. Listen to Poilievre muse on eliminating rights! Listen to him attack anything and everything the Liberals say or do even if it is positive. 40 years of neoliberal right leaning free market governments ha e gaslighted us into actually believing the impossible and that is the slippery slope to less freedom not more. Follow Smith in Alberta as she chips away at eliminating any thing that may question her decision as well as stacking the deck in favour of right leaning voters having their way with minority opinions
I have read some of these comments. Does anyone know how to think for themselves in this "house"? Have we forgotten critical thinking? Or have so many of you been swallowed up by thinking you have to take sides; that you know the answers...all the answers? That's the problem here. Too many believe there is a good side and a bad side depending on where you are. I don't believe that. We can think for ourselves. We can make our own decisions. We don't need someone to tell us how to think. I'm very disheartened by some of what I've read on this my first foray into this site. I'm not sure what is right, as in correct, or moral, or good. But, some of you seem to have a lock on that. I'm ashamed when I read how some spout ideas with such certainty that they can't be wrong and everyone else is. Are you afraid of a critical exchange of ideas or are you looking for a forum where everyone else agrees with you?
As an aside, I'd like to suggest that what we really need to do is *gasp* not have disposable cups at all. I know the idea of bringing your own cup if you'd like to take a beverage with you from a restaurant is shocking, but we really don't have endless forests to raze in the name of convenience either. Of course such as suggestion would provoke much greater rage and fury than simply not using plastic does, and perhaps the reactionaries will finally be driven to the hills to take up their AR15 adopt the Dead Kennedy's 1987 album title as their battle cry.
Well good for you (or "u" as you/u would put it). I don't need someone to shove their political views (and that's what they are, political views, or even a kind of racist view) down my throat. I can think for myself. You obviously need someone else to do it for you. Whatever happened to critical thinking?
Where have you been? I have a friend, a senior lawyer for the province of Ontario, who is forced, and I mean FORCED to attend sessions run by far left people who tell their audience that they are compelled to admit they are privileged and racist just by virtue of their birth. If they deny it or argue back, they can face consequences. Because my friend is a lawyer and he fears consequences fro the Law Society as well. There is no discussion. There is no debate. This is what everyone is afraid Donald Trump and his MAGAtites would do if he became president, I guess in reverse. Well, my friend, it’s already happening. Our society has become polarized to an extreme. And so many Canadians are willfully blind to it.
For over a week, I couldn't enjoy ice cream of any type.
I have to go to the dentist today; looking forward to eating ice cream and drinking tea after a week of hot/cold sensitivity and chewing on one side of my mouth. But for, no joke, millions of Canadians, that's a long-term situation. NO ice cream for them!
The new public dental-care program has already fixed tens of thousands of cavities, crowned thousands of broken teeth, even at the start of the uptake. More pain than I can actually comprehend has already been alleviated.
Bravo, to the NDP-whipped Liberals, without whom, those millions would just get no ice cream at all. And hurt. And hurt.
My point, David, and I do have one, is that I can get culture-war anywhere, indeed I can't dodge it. I'm paying you for class war material. It's far more important, and far less served.
Get back to work, on issues worthy of your time and ours:
Is this a site for so-called "progressives" only? Why do so many have it in for a conservative point of view? I just subscribed to this site. If this blog turns out to be a forum for dwelling on a frivolous issue such as plant-based ice cream with comments such as a "predominately right-wing trend of turning every issue into a melodramatic...culture war" by David Moscrop, then I want no part of it. The policy of the TDSB that I was referring to was a directive to teachers that they should promote that all white people were inherently privileged etc, a premise that I find ill-considered, biased and as disgustingly narrow as the rascist invective of white supremacists. Are Canadians, and I am one but spent many years living in Detroit, just inherently as narrow, isolationist and self-satisfied as our American neighbors that we seem to love to criticize? Pierre Trudeau, in his own way, is just an empty suit with a penchant for meaningless gestures, photo ops and vapid policy. That is only becoming apparent now after 10 years. John R.
The difference is that the "woke" side made policy proposals in a bureaucracy, which has mechanisms for discussing policy proposals among those actually affected by them, in this case, kids, parents, school staff. If they are "bad" policy proposals, that is most likely to show up in those small-group discussions, board or PTA meetings, email chains, because the disputants are all involved.
That's the complete opposite of a media organization splashing headlines, to enrage their readers and sell more copy. And make the work of quiet discussion, where people are not afraid to express themselves, more difficult.
The difficulty with claiming equivalence in the media sphere (which is David's topic today, not the political sphere) is that billionaires can afford their own newspapers and whole TV networks to pump out very one-sided views every day; the minorities and poor must plead for attention.
If you're unfamiliar with David's work, then, yes, he's one of the few journalists willing to describe himself as a "socialist", he's out, if you will. And we're the folks how pay for it. You're entirely welcome here, but I would expect challenges to "conservative points of view" if you slip up with any facts.
"I think it’s important to point out that the predominantly right-wing trend of turning every issue into a melodramatic, partisan, zero sum, culture war struggle forestalls chances at discussion, deliberation, and debate..." You think it's a predominately right-wing trend? You are wrong. Have you seen certain policy suggestions by the TDSB (Toronto School Board) and the Mississauga School Board? I suggest you take a look at yesterday's issue of "Persuasion" by Nellie Bowles, "How the NYTimes Went Woke". Get your head out of the sand my friend. John R. Toronto
Is the plant based ice cream issue any different than labelling margarine as butter? Ice CREAM infers dairy as much as butter. Or does it? What about nut butters? Or do they necessarily contain only dairy butter?
Is this any different from only allowing sparkling wines from Champagne, France to be labelled as champagne? What happened to that issue anyway?
Who gets to decide what crosses the line from fair marketing practices into false advertising? If we left it up to the consumer to police business in this regard, would society really be better off?Personally I don't think so, and I'm generally on the side of consumer choice in most matters.
Orwell is referenced in the piece, how about the other Orwellian idea that debasing language by ignoring or twisting the meaning of words allows control of a different kind? Isn't that a major tactic in the culture wars?
But do we really want a language police like in France (does it still operate?), that controls what words are allowed into the language?
The whole discussion bears further analysis, preferably one with premises clearly stated so that the ensuing argument can be justified.
Thanks for pointing that out. I never checked the link because I assumed that both "cream" and "plant based" were on the label.
One wonders how this got to be an issue. I suppose that's the point of the column, except doesn't the existence of the column simply add fuel to the fire (by validating the incident as worthy of discussion)?
It’s today’s conservatives. They cant function without their daily share of fake outrage and culture wars. However, it isn’t really surprising. Today’s right wouldn’t be appearing at all without rage farming. It’s just hilarious that at the same time they are also fighting toes and nails against additional labeling requirements for natural products. Anyway, let’s see the next step thing they will be mad at.
A new front in the culture wars?!
In this economy?
U hit the nail on the head. One mustn't forget the right is set on eliminating the left and the process almost complete in the USA, and well underway in Canada. Just open your ears! Who is encourageing mistrust in our institutions? The Supreme Court, the Bank of Canada, our Federal government, Statistics Canada, our voting system ,and election process .
Always the rright.The ultra right Premiers like Smith , Moe, Ford and Higgs. Listen to Poilievre muse on eliminating rights! Listen to him attack anything and everything the Liberals say or do even if it is positive. 40 years of neoliberal right leaning free market governments ha e gaslighted us into actually believing the impossible and that is the slippery slope to less freedom not more. Follow Smith in Alberta as she chips away at eliminating any thing that may question her decision as well as stacking the deck in favour of right leaning voters having their way with minority opinions
I have read some of these comments. Does anyone know how to think for themselves in this "house"? Have we forgotten critical thinking? Or have so many of you been swallowed up by thinking you have to take sides; that you know the answers...all the answers? That's the problem here. Too many believe there is a good side and a bad side depending on where you are. I don't believe that. We can think for ourselves. We can make our own decisions. We don't need someone to tell us how to think. I'm very disheartened by some of what I've read on this my first foray into this site. I'm not sure what is right, as in correct, or moral, or good. But, some of you seem to have a lock on that. I'm ashamed when I read how some spout ideas with such certainty that they can't be wrong and everyone else is. Are you afraid of a critical exchange of ideas or are you looking for a forum where everyone else agrees with you?
.. ‘if only our Emperor - Potemkin Poilievre & Jenni Byrne knew ! 🦎🏴☠️
Good piece.
As an aside, I'd like to suggest that what we really need to do is *gasp* not have disposable cups at all. I know the idea of bringing your own cup if you'd like to take a beverage with you from a restaurant is shocking, but we really don't have endless forests to raze in the name of convenience either. Of course such as suggestion would provoke much greater rage and fury than simply not using plastic does, and perhaps the reactionaries will finally be driven to the hills to take up their AR15 adopt the Dead Kennedy's 1987 album title as their battle cry.
Well good for you (or "u" as you/u would put it). I don't need someone to shove their political views (and that's what they are, political views, or even a kind of racist view) down my throat. I can think for myself. You obviously need someone else to do it for you. Whatever happened to critical thinking?
Where have you been? I have a friend, a senior lawyer for the province of Ontario, who is forced, and I mean FORCED to attend sessions run by far left people who tell their audience that they are compelled to admit they are privileged and racist just by virtue of their birth. If they deny it or argue back, they can face consequences. Because my friend is a lawyer and he fears consequences fro the Law Society as well. There is no discussion. There is no debate. This is what everyone is afraid Donald Trump and his MAGAtites would do if he became president, I guess in reverse. Well, my friend, it’s already happening. Our society has become polarized to an extreme. And so many Canadians are willfully blind to it.
If u don't realize how privileged the white upper middle class are in this country, please wake up. And I am just a white senior who does realize it
For over a week, I couldn't enjoy ice cream of any type.
I have to go to the dentist today; looking forward to eating ice cream and drinking tea after a week of hot/cold sensitivity and chewing on one side of my mouth. But for, no joke, millions of Canadians, that's a long-term situation. NO ice cream for them!
The new public dental-care program has already fixed tens of thousands of cavities, crowned thousands of broken teeth, even at the start of the uptake. More pain than I can actually comprehend has already been alleviated.
Bravo, to the NDP-whipped Liberals, without whom, those millions would just get no ice cream at all. And hurt. And hurt.
My point, David, and I do have one, is that I can get culture-war anywhere, indeed I can't dodge it. I'm paying you for class war material. It's far more important, and far less served.
Get back to work, on issues worthy of your time and ours:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/people-skipping-dentist-avoid-costs-1.7022869
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-dental-work-nunavut-children/
Is this a site for so-called "progressives" only? Why do so many have it in for a conservative point of view? I just subscribed to this site. If this blog turns out to be a forum for dwelling on a frivolous issue such as plant-based ice cream with comments such as a "predominately right-wing trend of turning every issue into a melodramatic...culture war" by David Moscrop, then I want no part of it. The policy of the TDSB that I was referring to was a directive to teachers that they should promote that all white people were inherently privileged etc, a premise that I find ill-considered, biased and as disgustingly narrow as the rascist invective of white supremacists. Are Canadians, and I am one but spent many years living in Detroit, just inherently as narrow, isolationist and self-satisfied as our American neighbors that we seem to love to criticize? Pierre Trudeau, in his own way, is just an empty suit with a penchant for meaningless gestures, photo ops and vapid policy. That is only becoming apparent now after 10 years. John R.
The difference is that the "woke" side made policy proposals in a bureaucracy, which has mechanisms for discussing policy proposals among those actually affected by them, in this case, kids, parents, school staff. If they are "bad" policy proposals, that is most likely to show up in those small-group discussions, board or PTA meetings, email chains, because the disputants are all involved.
That's the complete opposite of a media organization splashing headlines, to enrage their readers and sell more copy. And make the work of quiet discussion, where people are not afraid to express themselves, more difficult.
The difficulty with claiming equivalence in the media sphere (which is David's topic today, not the political sphere) is that billionaires can afford their own newspapers and whole TV networks to pump out very one-sided views every day; the minorities and poor must plead for attention.
If you're unfamiliar with David's work, then, yes, he's one of the few journalists willing to describe himself as a "socialist", he's out, if you will. And we're the folks how pay for it. You're entirely welcome here, but I would expect challenges to "conservative points of view" if you slip up with any facts.
"I think it’s important to point out that the predominantly right-wing trend of turning every issue into a melodramatic, partisan, zero sum, culture war struggle forestalls chances at discussion, deliberation, and debate..." You think it's a predominately right-wing trend? You are wrong. Have you seen certain policy suggestions by the TDSB (Toronto School Board) and the Mississauga School Board? I suggest you take a look at yesterday's issue of "Persuasion" by Nellie Bowles, "How the NYTimes Went Woke". Get your head out of the sand my friend. John R. Toronto
Is the plant based ice cream issue any different than labelling margarine as butter? Ice CREAM infers dairy as much as butter. Or does it? What about nut butters? Or do they necessarily contain only dairy butter?
Is this any different from only allowing sparkling wines from Champagne, France to be labelled as champagne? What happened to that issue anyway?
Who gets to decide what crosses the line from fair marketing practices into false advertising? If we left it up to the consumer to police business in this regard, would society really be better off?Personally I don't think so, and I'm generally on the side of consumer choice in most matters.
Orwell is referenced in the piece, how about the other Orwellian idea that debasing language by ignoring or twisting the meaning of words allows control of a different kind? Isn't that a major tactic in the culture wars?
But do we really want a language police like in France (does it still operate?), that controls what words are allowed into the language?
The whole discussion bears further analysis, preferably one with premises clearly stated so that the ensuing argument can be justified.
Yes, there are rules about labelling, and this product is not labelled as ice cream. See the link David provided: https://www.haagen-dazs.ca/en/haagen-dazs/plant-based-vanilla-raspberry-truffle-frozen-dessert
Thanks for pointing that out. I never checked the link because I assumed that both "cream" and "plant based" were on the label.
One wonders how this got to be an issue. I suppose that's the point of the column, except doesn't the existence of the column simply add fuel to the fire (by validating the incident as worthy of discussion)?
My pleasure! I purposely kept my tone neutral, as I, too, did not initially check the link :)