Agreed on the power and insight of the people, it is the foundation of democracy for 500 years. The assembly is conceptually a good idea to get around the vagaries of poor politicians eg populists, conspiracists. The same influences will be exercised on them I would expect. Isn't the Senate supposed to be that longer term balance. One of the challenges of democracy these days besides Putin and tech bros is how fast it can move when needs arise. .
Iceland has a commitment to climate action that survives changes in Government. Perhaps more longer term issues need to be moved to 3rd party?
Presumably, Parliament would instigate this. Therein lies the biggest hurdle. Giving up power ... even a little, is not something people in power are want to do. Listening to "the people " also falls in this realm.
Doing some very back of envelope stuff here, let’s assume an Assembly of 1000 Canadians selected by sortition*, periodically replaced, and open to any voting-eligible person who is interested (unlike, say, jury duty).
Let’s assume we pay them $100K/year for their trouble, and that admin overhead is equal to the “workforce” cost (backend functions & systems, personal tech, Assembly management/coordination/logistics/archival, etc.).
This group could meet remotely as full-time CA members for <~$200M/year, which lines up as an order of magnitude estimate with ~$800M/year for Parliament costs all in.
As Dave pointed out above, people in power don’t like to give it up, and this cost seems like an easy excuse to avoid another “boss” (even though it’s only advisory). But what if a patriotic billionaire were to fund the initial project as a hands-off initiative, essentially begging/daring the government to take over/leave it third party hands once it’s up & running & providing useful insights?
Sort of a sortition-staffed think tank with the principles you’ve expressed at the start, ideally evolving into a publicly funded arms-length NGO entity.
The Citizens Assembly model could and should be implemented at all levels of government. And the great thing is, to organize one, you don’t need any governments’ permission.
Or, we could adopt proportional representation, where elected politicians would do all of what you described as fundamental to their job, instead of deliberately being divisive to appeal to their base and stay in power.
Anyone who has witnessed the jury selection process has seen the weaknesses in sortition. And jury selection is, in theory, compulsory, whereas (I assume) a citizen's assembly would be voluntary.
Rather than just observing that CAs have been used before, it is important that we understand the fidelity of CAs in actually representing public opinion. The examples of electoral reform in BC and Ontario would indicate that those CAs failed to represent the public.
I like the idea. Here in Ontario we've been pushed back to a more basic level as Doug Ford is doing everything he can to eliminate local democracy. Local school boards have almost no power anymore. Certain city's mayors have been given power to override elected councils. Some Regional Municipalities aren't allowed to elect their regional chair and Dougie will appoint them. Local democracy is the foundation of wider democracy and if we lose local democracy all the citizen councils in the world won't help.
I love this idea. I have served on a citizens advisory committee in my City for six years (three two-year terms - required to reapply every term). It was a great experience of how ordinary people of various backgrounds and interests could come together and help advise our City Council. Did they always follow or agree with our advice; no. Did a few councillors appreciate that our committee was definitely not a “rubber-stamp” for what they wanted to do; oh yes. Did we help then make better, more-informed decisions; I hope so.
Like all of us, government representatives and staff tend to be siloed in their bubbles (district, region, party, etc.) and they only know what they know from their own experience and learning. An advisory committee brings in other knowledge and expertise.
The one drawback to the application model is that it tends to skew older, white, middle class, and on my committee, male. The City recognizes the barriers (financial, cultural, education, economic), and does reach out to other communities, but they can only choose from amongst those who apply. That is why, I think sortition would be the correct method to select CA members. There also has to be real and adequate compensation, not just the token given to people selected for jury duty, childcare for those with children, and employers must be REQUIRED to give adequate time off for those selected to participate, and a guarantee that the selectees will not lose their jobs.
Serving on the Advisory Committee was an incredibly rewarding experience, and sometimes could be very frustrating when Council rejected our advice because social media trolls said bad things, and when senior levels of government pulled the rug out from under us by passing legislation that severely limited what our Council could do.
Agreed on the power and insight of the people, it is the foundation of democracy for 500 years. The assembly is conceptually a good idea to get around the vagaries of poor politicians eg populists, conspiracists. The same influences will be exercised on them I would expect. Isn't the Senate supposed to be that longer term balance. One of the challenges of democracy these days besides Putin and tech bros is how fast it can move when needs arise. .
Iceland has a commitment to climate action that survives changes in Government. Perhaps more longer term issues need to be moved to 3rd party?
Presumably, Parliament would instigate this. Therein lies the biggest hurdle. Giving up power ... even a little, is not something people in power are want to do. Listening to "the people " also falls in this realm.
Doing some very back of envelope stuff here, let’s assume an Assembly of 1000 Canadians selected by sortition*, periodically replaced, and open to any voting-eligible person who is interested (unlike, say, jury duty).
Let’s assume we pay them $100K/year for their trouble, and that admin overhead is equal to the “workforce” cost (backend functions & systems, personal tech, Assembly management/coordination/logistics/archival, etc.).
This group could meet remotely as full-time CA members for <~$200M/year, which lines up as an order of magnitude estimate with ~$800M/year for Parliament costs all in.
https://www.ourcommons.ca/reporttocanadians/en/financial-information
As Dave pointed out above, people in power don’t like to give it up, and this cost seems like an easy excuse to avoid another “boss” (even though it’s only advisory). But what if a patriotic billionaire were to fund the initial project as a hands-off initiative, essentially begging/daring the government to take over/leave it third party hands once it’s up & running & providing useful insights?
Sort of a sortition-staffed think tank with the principles you’ve expressed at the start, ideally evolving into a publicly funded arms-length NGO entity.
The Citizens Assembly model could and should be implemented at all levels of government. And the great thing is, to organize one, you don’t need any governments’ permission.
Here’s a great resource: https://assemblyguide.demnext.org/
Or, we could adopt proportional representation, where elected politicians would do all of what you described as fundamental to their job, instead of deliberately being divisive to appeal to their base and stay in power.
Idealistic.
Anyone who has witnessed the jury selection process has seen the weaknesses in sortition. And jury selection is, in theory, compulsory, whereas (I assume) a citizen's assembly would be voluntary.
Rather than just observing that CAs have been used before, it is important that we understand the fidelity of CAs in actually representing public opinion. The examples of electoral reform in BC and Ontario would indicate that those CAs failed to represent the public.
I like the idea. Here in Ontario we've been pushed back to a more basic level as Doug Ford is doing everything he can to eliminate local democracy. Local school boards have almost no power anymore. Certain city's mayors have been given power to override elected councils. Some Regional Municipalities aren't allowed to elect their regional chair and Dougie will appoint them. Local democracy is the foundation of wider democracy and if we lose local democracy all the citizen councils in the world won't help.
I love this idea. I have served on a citizens advisory committee in my City for six years (three two-year terms - required to reapply every term). It was a great experience of how ordinary people of various backgrounds and interests could come together and help advise our City Council. Did they always follow or agree with our advice; no. Did a few councillors appreciate that our committee was definitely not a “rubber-stamp” for what they wanted to do; oh yes. Did we help then make better, more-informed decisions; I hope so.
Like all of us, government representatives and staff tend to be siloed in their bubbles (district, region, party, etc.) and they only know what they know from their own experience and learning. An advisory committee brings in other knowledge and expertise.
The one drawback to the application model is that it tends to skew older, white, middle class, and on my committee, male. The City recognizes the barriers (financial, cultural, education, economic), and does reach out to other communities, but they can only choose from amongst those who apply. That is why, I think sortition would be the correct method to select CA members. There also has to be real and adequate compensation, not just the token given to people selected for jury duty, childcare for those with children, and employers must be REQUIRED to give adequate time off for those selected to participate, and a guarantee that the selectees will not lose their jobs.
Serving on the Advisory Committee was an incredibly rewarding experience, and sometimes could be very frustrating when Council rejected our advice because social media trolls said bad things, and when senior levels of government pulled the rug out from under us by passing legislation that severely limited what our Council could do.